56 Responses

1. 

   Peter Thompson

   31 October 2010 8:55 am

   I have a copy of ATOCs current OSI list – do you want a copy?

2. 

   Mike

   2 November 2010 1:23 am

   Thank you Peter, that was very useful indeed. Unfortunately there are several anomalies between the May 2010 TfL list and this Oct 2010 ATOC list. In the main they involve some of the newer OSIs from May being left off (eg Dalstons and Shadwells on the ELL). A complete list of the changes appears below the table. I am awaiting a revised list via a FOI request to TfL (submitted before this ATOC version came to light) so there may be further clarification shortly.

3. Oyster boost for Cannon Street commuters « 853

   2 November 2010 9:26 am

   [...] These “out of station interchanges” aren’t publicised – most of them are straightforward local shortcuts that only regular users generally need to know about, like Catford to Catford Bridge – but you’ll find a full list here. [...]

4. 

   Jon B

   2 November 2010 11:02 am

   Its baffling to me why to get these lists someone has to submit FoI requests…

5. 

   Mike

   8 November 2010 5:09 pm

   The ATOC list has turned out to be a disaster and almost all changes have been reversed. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

   I have also tried to simplify some of the entries (especially Kings Cross St Pancras and Waterloo) where ‘duplicate’ entries have the same time allowed.

6. 

   Ed

   5 March 2011 12:04 am

   Will there be any changes considering TfL are advising people to avoid Victoria at rush hour?

7. 

   Mike

   5 March 2011 12:26 am

   Hi Ed,

   As far as I know there aren’t any at the moment. The most recent FOI request was answered in late February with an update from last November. I’m not sure how relevant other interchanges might be bearing in mind that you have to walk (rather than take a bus) to make the interchange valid.

8. 

   Andy

   24 June 2011 11:36 am

   Hi ,

   I travel on Southern trains from West Norwood to Deptford.

   As my final destination is zone 2 ( Detpford ) I have no other way to travel than via London Bridge (Zone 1)

   I do not leave the station I only wait for my next train to Detpford.

   Do I have purchase zone 1 just to reach Deptford ??

   Thanks

   Andy

9. 

   Mike

   24 June 2011 12:13 pm

   Hi Andy,

   Yes, you do, unfortunately. If you want to avoid zone 1 then you will need to get off at New Cross Gate and either walk (15-20 minutes) or take a bus.

10. 

    Paul

    6 August 2011 6:54 pm

    This list is so useful – thank you!

    Interesting anomaly resulting from use of the OSI in New Cross: my wife travelled from a Zone 6 Southern station to Lewisham, using this OSI en route, and was correctly charged £2.20 for the whole trip – i.e. no extra cost for the New Cross to Lewisham bit.

    However, she then immediately touched in in Lewisham DLR station and out at the next stop, Elverson Road. Adding this short DLR trip to non-Zone-1-encompassing rail trips to Lewisham is always free, but in this case it DOUBLED her fare, to £4.40! It added £2.20 for a one-stop DLR trip that even on its own would only cost £1.30!

    It appears that while the charging system takes account of the OSI for the rail trip to calculate the alternative fate avoiding Zone 1, it doesn’t then use that data, as it would with pink route-validator data, to work out the correct fare later too. Instead it charged her the fare as if she’d travelled via Zone 1.

    She’s going to ring the Oyster helpline, but does anyone know if there’s anyone we could usefully contact to point out this flaw in the system so they can address it?

11. 

    Mike

    6 August 2011 7:25 pm

    Hi Paul,

    Ouch! I can see what they’ve done, and I agree that it needs changing. Unfortunately, a pink validator wouldn’t help either. The problem is that there is only one route to Elverson Road from, say, Caterham. However, the fact that there is an alternative route for Caterham to Lewisham suggests that they need to build that in to journeys to Elverson Road and possibly Deptford Bridge as well.

    I suggest emailing the helpdesk and ask them to pass the query on to the fare setting department.

    In the meantime, the only way to reduce the fare is to wait over 20 minutes at Lewisham between touching out of the NR station and touching in at the DLR station. This would end the rail journey and start a new one zone DLR journey which would cost £1.30 as you say. It’s not ideal. If you had a travelcard on your Oyster then you could touch in on a bus and get back off again to at least avoid the need to wait around.

12. 

    Paul

    6 August 2011 7:56 pm

    Thanks Mike – we’ll give that a try! I’m hoping the helpline will look sympathetically on her case when she rings in a few days and refund the £2.20 too.

13. 

    Mike

    6 August 2011 8:19 pm

    Good Luck. Please let me know how you get on.

14. 

    Andy

    16 August 2011 2:12 pm

    Dear Mike,

    when changing at Walthamstow Central from the National Rail service to the Victoria Line should you touch out on the National Rail platform before touching in on the underground or can you ignore the national rail reader?

15. 

    Mike

    16 August 2011 2:28 pm

    Hi Andy,

    I’m not aware of special arrangements here so my advice would be to touch out and in properly. It is possible that the gates in will let you in if you are still in the system (as they’ve done with NR at Finsbury Park) but I don’t know. The worst that can happen will be an unfinished journey which the helpdesk will probably refund if you explain what happened. Let me know if you try it.

16. 

    Paul

    18 August 2011 9:15 am

    Just to update you on the fare problem I described a couple of weeks ago: my wife spent ages on the phone to the Oyster helpline patiently explaining the problem, until the person there finally understood and refunded the £2.20.

    Meanwhile, I’ve just had the following response to my e-mailed complaint to TfL:

    ” I have informed the relevant department in regards to the amount charged to your Oyster card for your journey between Coulsdon South and Elverson Road DLR (avoiding zone 1). These charges will be amended at the next possible opportunity, which will now be on 2 January 2012.”

    Shame it has to wait that long, but glad to hear they’re fixing it!

17. 

    Malcolm

    1 September 2011 7:54 pm

    Just a thought as to the position now the Statford International branch of the DLR is open.
    What is the position on interchanging at Stratford, West Ham and Canning Town, I presume you touch out / in on the DLR reader and then again touch out at the end of your journey.
    Also should not Woolwich Arsenal be an OSI in the same way as Lewisham and Limehouse for example.

18. 

    Mike

    1 September 2011 8:00 pm

    Hi Malcolm,

    All those stations are single entities so there is no need to touch out and in again. Whereas at Lewisham the DLR station is separate to the NR station so you do need to touch out and in again.

19. 

    Malcolm

    1 September 2011 8:01 pm

    Does anyone have any idea how someone goes about suggesting an OSI.
    The one I would like to suggest would be Ickenham and West Ruislip where bus and rail links are few across the North of the borough of Hillingdon.

20. 

    Mike

    1 September 2011 8:46 pm

    Initially I would write or email to the helpdesk and ask for the suggestion to be passed to the relevant people. Having looked at the map I do wonder how many people would actually use it though. It seems to be a little further apart than most OSIs, usually no more than a third of a mile, and West Ruislip is the last Oyster station on it’s line with only two more stops further out than Ickenham.

21. 

    StarWill

    21 September 2011 7:23 am

    I understand that you use FOI request to TfL to get a list of current Out of Station Interchanges (OSIs).
    How do you get Emergency OSIs as at Tottenham Court Road (TCR)?

    There seems to be a same NLC Emergency OSI at TCR. I don’t know how long it is. This reformats an extract from an online statement:
    Date Time Location Action Fare
    16/09/11 09:05 Bethnal Green [LU] Exit £4.60
    08:31 Tottenham Court Road Entry -£4.60
    08:26 Tottenham Court Road Exit £4.60
    08:00 Bank Entry -£6.50

    By analogy with
    Bank LU Bank LU 15
    I would expect to see
    Tottenham Court Road LU Tottenham Court Road LU ?

    I am not sure that “Note 1: Bank LU OSI between Central/Northern/DLR and Waterloo&City gatelines.” tells the full story. I think there is only one logical gateline at Bank, unlike King’s Cross St Pancras where there are 3 and OSI is between any pair.

    Thanks for publishing the data.

    My favourite “missing” OSI is Warren Street – Euston Square.

22. 

    Mike

    21 September 2011 9:34 am

    Hi StarWill,

    I was tipped off that there was an OSI covering the Northern Line closure at Tottenham Court Road and asked about it as a follow up to my last FOI request. The way they do these means that there is effectively a blanket OSI between the three stations, including exiting and entering again, I guess in case you change your mind (perhaps if it’s heavy rain outside). I didn’t include that as it’s not really an interchange as such.

    I’m not very familiar with the layout at Bank but I’m sure that an early list described there being two gatelines. I’ll have to have a look around next time I’m in the area. And I agree about Warren Street to Euston Square, that would make sense in some directions.

23. 

    Anna

    2 October 2011 7:00 pm

    Hi, I have just moved to London so this is proving to be a very useful site, thank you!

    I have a query regarding different modes of transport however, I will be travelling from Covent Garden (tube) to Bromley South (National rail) then bus which would in total take about an hour so is within the travel time. Would that all be counted as one journey still or would the bus be charged as extra? I understand the buses run slightly differently in that you dont touch out afterwards so not sure if that would be included?

    Thanks

24. 

    Mike

    2 October 2011 9:25 pm

    Hi Anna,

    Buses are charged separately, unfortunately. However, I might be able to save you a bit depending on exactly where you need to get to. First off, mixing National Rail and the tube in zone 1 attracts an extra charge. If you are close enough to Charing Cross to walk then you could save that bit. From Charing Cross you can get trains to Grove Park where there is a shuttle to Bromley North. The journey will take a little longer than the non-stop trains from Victoria, but Bromley North is in zone 4 whereas Bromley South is in zone 5. Many of the buses in Bromley serve both stations so you may not be inconvenienced by using the other station.

    Hope that helps.

25. 

    Anna

    3 October 2011 6:45 pm

    That does help, thanks Mike!

26. 

    Sarah

    4 October 2011 11:16 am

    Hi,

    How much is it from Liverpool Street to Bank when using your Oyster Card?

    Thanks you.

27. 

    Mike

    4 October 2011 12:03 pm

    According to http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/farefinder/current/ it is £1.90 all day.

28. 

    john freyr

    12 October 2011 11:56 am

    I want to travel from Clock House to Stratford. Single Fare says £1.70 off peak.
    To get this should I touch in at Clock House but not touch out until getting to Stratford on DLR?

29. 

    Mike

    12 October 2011 11:59 am

    You will probably need to touch out at Lewisham NR, but just touch in at the DLR station within 20 minutes and the two journeys will be combined.

30. 

    M Goldie

    13 October 2011 12:59 pm

    Hi. It seems illogical that Euston Square (LU) & Warren Street (LU) are not an OSI. Regards.

31. 

    Mike

    13 October 2011 2:38 pm

    You’re not alone in that view.

32. 

    Dave

    21 October 2011 2:34 am

    Hi Mike

    Do OSIs only apply between DIFFERENT gatelines at OSI stations? I recently passed through Paddington, changing from the H&C (Tube) to Heathrow Connect (NR) and onward to Hayes & Harlington (a valid Oyster journey). I exited a very new-looking barrier before realising that Heathrow Connect is on the same level as the H&C, so I had to re-enter the same barrier. I was charged for two separate journeys. (I was later “capped” and so I didn’t lose out on this occasion – otherwise I’d have complained.)

    You commented that EOSIs allow you to change your mind about exiting and re-entering the SAME station. But logically that should then also apply to normal OSIs and all other stations as well! I bet many people get double charged when they are simply confused, as did I (above). My teenage son recently got lost when changing at Green Park (there are long tunnels between all three Tube lines) and got charged twice when exiting and promptly re-entering the only gateline. (The Helpline agreed to refund this but only “as a goodwill gesture”, grrr!)

    I also “vote” for an OSI between Euston Sq and Warren St. Yes, there are usually better routes, but it should still be an option to change between two such close stations on different lines that aren’t interconnected. Curiously, if you enter “Gt Portland St to Oxford Circus (by Tube only)” into the TFL Journey Planner, it sends you all the way to Kings Cross to change back onto the Victoria Line! That’s daft if you look on a map – and the interchange at KGX is no quicker than walking from ESq to WSt! If the planner reflects TFL’s thinking, perhaps that goes some way to explain the lack of an OSI?

33. 

    Mike

    21 October 2011 1:05 pm

    Hi Dave,

    Yes, normal OSIs definitely only apply between different gatelines. Normally EOSIs are set as a result of disruption. By it’s very nature the effects of disruption can change quite quickly, so that is why they allow re-entry at each station. I am still surprised that the temporary OSI for Tottenham Court Road has been implimented as an EOSI whereas the one for Blackfriars is done with permanent OSIs.

    As to Warren Street, it keeps being mentioned here and I know some staff from TfL read this blog, so maybe it’ll be added at some stage in the future.

34. 

    chrisjt99

    1 November 2011 4:50 pm

    Hi Mike

    Do I need to touch out at Waterloo East (and touch in when returning) if I want to continue a rail journey via Waterloo train station.

35. 

    Mike

    1 November 2011 5:07 pm

    Hi Chris,

    Yes you do. Touch out on the bridge from Waterloo East and touch in at the gateline on Waterloo mainline to combine the two journeys into one. If you forget to touch the validators on the bridge you will get a maximum journey charge.

36. 

    chrisjt99

    1 November 2011 11:17 pm

    Thanks for the quick reply, Mike.

37. 

    BenA

    4 November 2011 11:00 am

    Hi Mike/all,

    I was thinking about suggesting an OSI between Bethnal Green NR and both Bethnal Green and Whitechapel Tube. Also one between Cambridge Heath NR and Bethnal Green tube. These connections are less than a 10 min walk and are very handy for travel between east and north-east London.

38. 

    Mike

    4 November 2011 2:47 pm

    Hi Ben,

    I agree, all three of those connections seem reasonable as OSIs. I can see a little confusion because of the way the rail services map is drawn in that area (i.e. Bethnal Green tube is in completely the wrong place), but that’s no reason not to set them up, of course.

39. 

    BenA

    5 November 2011 10:18 am

    Thanks Mike. I think I’ll suggest this to TfL.

40. 

    Paul

    7 November 2011 12:49 pm

    I would add my support for an OSI for Euston Square/Warren Street AND Great Portland Street/Regents Park. Would make sense for west London to/from north London journeys, and also to reduce the no. of changing passengers at Euston and Kings X.

    @Ben: if you have any joy getting the ear of TfL, perhaps you would advise which department controls OSIs !

41. 

    Mike

    7 November 2011 2:04 pm

    Hi Paul,

    Not sure I agree with GPS/RP, and certainly not from West to North as any sane person would do that at Baker Street. South to East has limited appeal, but would probably be better served by Warren Street to Euston Square.

42. 

    tony bowyer

    11 November 2011 12:27 pm

    Can I also request Euston Sq – Warren St as an OSI – only a few hundred yards – after the hike from the new KX entrance to the trains it’s nothing!

43. 

    john freyr

    14 November 2011 11:54 am

    I want to travel from Upper Holloway to Clock House.
    The fare says it is £3.50/4.60 but from Gospel Oak to Clock House it is only £1.70/2.30 via Stratford. Is this correct?

44. 

    Mike

    14 November 2011 2:43 pm

    Yes it is. The reason, I guess, is the number of changes required, coupled with the overall journey time. If you really want to go via Stratford then you can reduce the fare a little by touching out and in again at Gospel Oak. That way the Upper Holloway to Gospel Oak bit would only cost £1.30/£1.40. In terms of journey time I’d strongly recommend walking a little further to Archway and taking the Northern Line to London Bridge.

    If you believe that your suggested journey (via Stratford) is reasonable then you could try emailing the helpdesk and ask them to pass on your request to the fares team to consider.

45. 

    Penny

    9 December 2011 9:25 am

    Very stupid question (I imagine). I commute into Waterloo East on the overground but work closer to Southwark Station. If I exit the Waterloo East platform into Southwark underground station I then have to go through the barriers into the station, walk a few feet and go out the other barriers to get to the street. If I use oyster to do this – with no actual journey involved – will I be charged?

46. 

    Ann7

    9 December 2011 1:22 pm

    Hi Mike, I normally take an overground train from New Cross Gate to Canada Water to get a Jubilee line into zone 1. I know they have NR to London Bridge but how do I go about using the OSI and change from NR London Bridge to London Bridge underground?

47. 

    Mike

    9 December 2011 10:38 pm

    Hi Ann,

    Just touch out at the gateline at London Bridge NR and touch in at the LU gateline within 20 minutes. The system then joins them together. However, you are currently doing the right thing price-wise going via Canada Water unless you need to speed your journey up. Overground and Underground are both TfL rail so you avoid the premium for mixing NR and TfL and travel in zone 1.

48. 

    Mike

    9 December 2011 10:41 pm

    Hi Penny,

    It’s not stupid because it is an unusual situation. The answer is no, because there is a special arrangement that allows you to do just that for no charge above your NR fare.

49. 

    Dave

    2 January 2012 10:29 pm

    Did I imagine that there was an osi between monument and London bridge before?!

50. 

    Mike

    2 January 2012 11:34 pm

    That’s not one that I’ve ever heard before. I’d say they were too far apart to be considered an OSI. Plus, Bank and London Bridge are both on the Northern Line.

51. 

    Malcolm

    3 January 2012 6:34 pm

    Unsure wether I found a flaw in the system on the 30th December or not.
    There were no Northern Line trains between Camden Town and High Barnet / MHE because of planned works.
    I appreciate there is an OSI of 20 minutes between Camden Town and Camden Road.
    There may have been an emergency OSI in place on this day as I travelled between Baker Street and Camden Town been charged the correct £1.90 fare before continuing 15 minutes later between Camden Town and Old Street and it been shown as a continuation of previous journey.

52. 

    Mike

    3 January 2012 7:11 pm

    If there were engineering works from Camden Town that day then there would almost certainly have been some emergency OSIs in place. You can always re-enter the same station when an EOSI is active, so that would explain what happened.

53. 

    StarWill

    20 February 2012 12:35 pm

    Recently, I have been baffled to find that touching out and touching in at Tower Hill did not complete a journey and start another. Yoday, Oyster CSC said there is a 15 minute OSI between Tower Hill LU and Tower Hill LU. i.e. between Tower Hill LU and itself. I suggest another FOI request to resolve this.

54. 

    Mike

    20 February 2012 2:54 pm

    Hi StarWill,

    That’s interesting. Can I ask when these journeys were? I’ll certainly look into this anyway.

55. 

    StarWill

    20 February 2012 5:21 pm

    Wednesday, 08 February 2012
    …
    09:33 – 09:59 Tower Hill to Moorgate £0.00 £15.95
    09:12 – 09:27 Whitechapel to Tower Hill £2.00 £15.95

    Wednesday, 15 February 2012
    …
    ???? – 09:42 [No touch-in] to Moorgate £4.60 £6.80
    09:11 – ???? Tower Hill to [No touch-out] £4.90 £11.40
    08:56 – 09:11 Moorgate to Tower Hill £2.00 £16.30

    [MGT-THL + immediate THL-MGT]
    The latter experience was the result of my not knowing about the OSI. Oyster has auto-refunded the overcharge, but it is all very tedious.

    I emailed mailto://ENQUIRY.TUBE@tfl.gov.uk asking why ticket office staff lacked the power to resolve the overpayment.

    Thursday, 16 February 2012
    …
    09:57 – 10:08 Tower Hill to Temple £0.70 £35.60
    09:26 – 09:42 Whitechapel to Tower Hill £2.00 £36.30

56. 

    Mike

    21 February 2012 11:50 am

    Hi StarWill,

    That’s very interesting and one that I will definitely be following up. Thanks for drawing it to my attention.

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