Fares Guide
Despite setting zonal fares a few years ago, the fare structure for rail journeys is still incredibly complex. TfL have a series of pages on their website which describe the various scales in great detail. Here is a link to the page describing National Rail fares. At the top of the page are links to the other pages in the series for TfL rail fares, buses and trams, river boats and the indispensible single fare finder.
The single fare finder is the bible for finding the fare between any two rail stations in the Oyster area. When you select your start and end stations and type of fare (adult, child, etc) it will first display the fares for the default route. If there are alternative routes then these will be given when you click on the “Alternative fares” button. It is really important to describe your journey the right way round because the times when peak fares apply can be different depending on the direction of travel.
There is only really one flaw with this utility and that is that it doesn’t describe what it thinks the default route is. In most cases this doesn’t matter, but it can cause confusion in some cases. You also need to be careful when selecting stations which are split in two but with the same name (eg Lewisham NR and Lewisham DLR). The default route from Richmond to Lewisham NR is via Waterloo and Waterloo East while the default route from Richmond to Lewisham DLR is via the District Line and the DLR. The latter also offers a cheap roundabout route avoiding zone 1 via Overground, Stratford and the DLR.
Finally, a little bit of explanation about the different scales for rail journeys. Outside of zone 1 there are only two scales, one for exclusively TfL-Rail and one for National Rail (including mixed NR+TfL). If the journey includes travel via zone 1 then it becomes a little more complicated. In addition the the two scales already mentioned, the mixed travel includes an additional surcharge, currently £1.30 peak and £1.20 off peak for adults. Note that this applies to any mixed journey that goes through zone 1, even if the bit within zone 1 is exclusively National Rail. And just to complicate things a little further, if you switch between National Rail and the Underground at either Vauxhall or Elephant and Castle you can sometimes get a cheaper fare where the NR bit ends in zone 2 and the Underground bit is only in zone 1.
Please see the definitions page for an explanation of the lines included in TfL-Rail and National Rail.
This page updated 10 November 2011.
129 Responses
Hello. Here’s a geeky anomaly I think I have discovered. It seems that the parts of London Overground which were the East London Line and its extension northward as far as Dalston Junction are treated as National Rail even though the ex-ELL parts aren’t.
The single fare finder says (and my personal experience bears out) that you get charged £1.70 (zones 1 and 2, national rail only fare). The single fare finder when applied to journeys between New Cross/Gate and Dalston Junction applies National Rail only fares (£1.30 for zone 2 alone; £1.70 if you touch Shoreditch High Street in zone 1)).
It’s hardly the end of the world but these are (mainly) ex-tube stations; the fares map colours the whole line green, not red, and your own excellent definitions I think may imply it’s TfL Rail, as the old East London Line was part of the Oyster system before June 2010.
Hi Harry,
The East London Line is definitely an anomaly. There were problems when TfL ruled that Shoreditch High Street would have to be in zone 1 because of it’s close proximity to Liverpool Street. I think the unusual treatment is probably linked to compromises made to appease LOROL.
As for what it is, it is TfL Rail because it is operated by London Overground, not because it used to be a tube line. While the fares might be odd on the old ELL section, when used from further afield it is definitely treated as TfL Rail. In particular, it is cheaper to travel via LO and Jubilee line between Crystal Palace and the West End than it is to travel via London Bridge and then Jubilee line.
Anyway, thanks for your comments. I may include this issue in a future revision.
Hi Mike,
I am wondering if you can help me on this question, I wish to travel from west croydon to dalston junction on the london overground line, West croydon is on zone 5, and Dalston Junction is on zone 2. If i was going to do this commute everyday, would i need to buy a zone 1 – 5 monthly travel card becuase of Shoreditch Highstreet is zone 1 even though i wont be getting off there, or could i buy a 2-5 monthly travelcard?
Thanks!
Hi Kwai,
You’ll need a zone 1-5 unfortunately. The travelcard required is based on the zones travelled through, not the start and finish zones.
Hi Mike,
Following on from Kwai’s question, if I may:
I have a Zones 2-5 travelcard for my daily commute from Vauxhall to Twickenham (NR route). Next week however, I need to travel from Finsbury Park (Zone 2) to Twickenham, requiring that I travel through Zone 1.
Will the system charge me nothing, will the system charge me a PAYG Zone 1-5 fare or will the system charge me a Zone 1 fare only to complement my travelcard?! Subsequently, what is the best plan of action to minimise the additional cost of this journey (as I fear this may become a regular occurrence)?
A brilliant website, thanks for the much needed help!
Hi Chris,
There are several options. The worst you will be charged is a zone 1 fare, whichever way you go. Your options are:
1. Victoria line to Vauxhall then as you currently go – charge just a zone 1 single fare.
2. Piccadilly and District Lines to Richmond then SWT to Twickenham – charge just a zone 1 single fare.
3. Victoria line to Highbury & Islington, Overground to Richmond then SWT to Twickenham – no extra charge as long as you touch the pink route validators at both Highbury & Islington and Richmond.
Because your travel in zone 1 for both the first two options is entirely on TfL Rail you will not need an OEP.
Hope that helps.
Hello Mike,
I know that the fare capping system is programmed to charge an off-peak cap plus individual peak fares if it is cheaper to do so, but do you know if the same applies to the bus cap? eg., if I use the bus many times, but make only one journey by train would I be charged the bus cap plus the individual train fare rather than the “full” cap?
Thanks.
Hi Steve,
Yes, the bus cap will cover all the bus fares and the train fare would be added on top, unless it was enough to activate the relevant travelcard cap.
Hey Mike
I touched in at Stratford main gates then again on a pink oyster validator on platform 2 as i was travelling to Earlsfield via Clapham Juction on London overground. It charged me £4.10 instead of £2.30 which i thought it would cost. could you explain this to me please. why i was charged more than expected.
Hi Ash,
Stratford to Earlsfield is one of those journeys that has been defined as requiring travel via zone 1. All I can suggest is that you contact TfL and ask them to consider revising that definition. As it stands I think they expect you to go via Central Line and District Line to Wimbledon and then NR from there.
A point to note is that the pink validators are only supposed to be used when interchanging along the route. They have no effect if touched at the start or end of the journey.
Hi Mike.
If I use my Oyster to travel from Tulse Hill (zone 3) to London Bridge it costs £2.90. Buy a paper ticket at London Bridge to Tulse Hill and it is £3.40. Look at the TfL website and it says that Oyster for four zones is £3.40. Do National Rail have the location of Tulse Hill wrong or is Oyster just cheaper in this instance?
Hi Mick,
Oyster is generally cheaper for single journeys. When Oyster was rolled out across the whole of London in January 2010 there were some changes made to the fares structure for journeys wholly within the Oyster area. Firstly the old cheap day tickets (off-peak) were abolished leaving only the Anytime fares. The Anytime single fare is usually a little over half of the Anytime return. Oyster only works in single fares so this sort of model wouldn’t work. The peak Oyster single fare was set at (and remains after the Jan 11 fares increase) half the Anytime return fare or possibly a little (5p or 10p) cheaper. Thus an Oyster peak return is guaranteed to be no more than a paper ticket. For off peak the Oyster single was set at half the old cheap day return such that an Oyster return was guaranteed to be no more than the old off-peak return paper ticket. Off peak paper tickets no longer exist for comparison purposes, but in Jan 11 there was little change to the off-peak fares so it’s reasonable to assume that they aren’t increasing out of proportion.
So in the peak hours an Oyster single will be a bit cheaper than a paper one (though it’s coincidence that the zones 1-3 paper fare matches the zones 1-4 Oyster fare) while off peak the difference is much greater.
Hi Mike
I travelled from West Ham (z3) to Queenstown Road (z2) via Waterloo (z1) during the weekday afternoon peak. I took the Jubilee Line from West Ham to Waterloo then National Rail to Queenstown Road.
As I have an annual travelcard Z1-2 on my Oyster Card; I was expecting to be charged £1.40 (for the Oyster PAYG Zone 3 tube-only portion of my journey). But I was charged £1.50.
I’m not too bothered about the 10p… but I would interested to know how it arrived at this figure.
17/05/11
18:36 West Ham Entry -£4.60
18:58 Waterloo (Jubilee line entrance) Exit +£3.75
19:14 Queenstown Road Battersea [National Rail] Exit -£0.65
The simple answer is that it charges you for the zones not covered by your travelcard at the rate which would be applicable for your whole journey. Your journey was a mixed NR and TfL journey so the rate for zone 3 is £1.50 because it was in the afternoon peak.
However, the bit of journey history above is quite interesting. It’s actually charged only 85p for the first part of the journey because that was TfL only ending in zone 1 so you get charged off-peak and your railcard discount also applies. I then assume that you touched in at Waterloo NR but it’s not shown because being within your zones it won’t have deducted a charge. Finally, on exit it re-evaluates the whole journey which is now peak and mixed mode so it deducts the extra 65p.
For the future there are two ways round this. Firstly you could wait around at Waterloo for 40 minutes so the OSI expires and then the second part would be treated as a new journey. Obviously most people won’t want to waste that much time. The other dodge is to go out to the bus stops and touch in on any bus and then get off again. The driver may be puzzled, but a bus breaks an OSI so the second part would again be charged as a new journey (and thus not charged).
Hope that helps.
Hi Mike
How odd having to pay an 10p even though the whole of my NR journey was covered by my annual travelcard. But now I know where the 10p came from.
Many thanks Mike for the information.
In regards to Kwai’s question above from February.
I have a Zone 2-4 travelcard, and I travel frequently between Whitechapel and Highbury & Islington, this passes through Zone 1 (Shoreditch High Street) and I am not charged any extra. And so I think a none Zone 1 travelcard would be ok.
I was just shocked when I looked at my Oyster statement and found out when I did swipe out of Shoreditch it charged me, I had no idea Shoreditch was in Zone 1!
Thanks for that Alexander.
I am aware that there are some differences between the fares charged on PAYG vs the travelcard zones required on a season. They usually offer the benefit of the doubt where a user might forget to touch a pink route validator within their zones because there is no penalty for not touching in or out within the zones of a travelcard.
It looks like this may be a similar case. I don’t know how far down the line it would work. I will see if I can make enquiries and get a definitive answer.
I have PAYG oyster card that I only use for a train to train journey on first capital connect from Zone 4 to Zone 1. Today alll trains were cancelled due to a broken down train. So I had no choice but to travel by train and underground. This cost me £1.20 extra. Is there anyway to get this extra charged refunded? As it seems a bit unjust that due to cancelled trains I had no choice but to go by underground.
Thanks
I agree that it should get refunded. It is possible that FCC will arrange for automatic refunds to be processed where there are regular journeys that were disrupted. This usually takes up to five days and you should get an email confirming that you have a refund ready to pick up. If nothing appears then you can call the helpdesk and ask them. I can’t guarantee that they’ll agree though.
mike,
I had and oyster bus rduction ticket which renews every 6 months as I am not working. The post office refuse the same B+W picture on paper for the renwall as they sell colour compuer generated pictures, what is the required picture which I have in order not to pay for new pictures every time. I am happy to print on shiny paper but this guy wont process my application.
Regards
dave
Hi Dave,
I’m sorry but I don’t know the requirements for photos. I know that for kids zip cards it has to be a passport approved colour photo, so I think it’s likely to be the same in your case as well.
Hi Mike,
Could you me please, what’s wrong with my trip?
I have monthly travel card from z2-3.
Last week, my trip was mile end – st john’s wood.
To avoid z.1, I took central line mile end – stratford
then stratford – west hampsted (overground)
after that west hampsted – st. john’s wood (jubilee line)
It charged me 1.90 when i touched out at st. john’s wood station.
My travel trip shown as
mile end – westhampsted (overground) [no charge]
mile end – st. john’s wood (1.90)
I didn’t pass z.1 at all.
note – from mile end – stratford (central line) i didn’t touch out at stratford (tube) and didn’t touch in at overground as well.
Today,again, my trip was mile end to shepherd’s bush (overground).
I started with central line from mile end – stratford
but I touch in-out correctly at stratford as I thought i missed this point last week.
and took overground to shepherd’s bush.
It charged 1.90 again when i touched out at shepherd’s bush station.
My travel history shown as
Mile end – stratford (no charge)
Mile end – shepherd’s bush (1.90)
When I ask some unhelpful staff there they kept saying
I have to pay more credit (as i’ve got a minus balance from 1.90 charge)
Do I misunderstand something about using travel card from z2-3? like I can’t travel from east to west without any fee or
any time limit reasons?
Thank you in advance.
Hi Paul,
You’ve nearly cracked it. You need to touch on one of the pink validators on the Overground platform at Stratford. I believe there is sometimes a problem with touching out and in again in quick succession at Stratford, i.e. it ignores both touches.
As to the negative balance, if you have one then you do need to clear it because your travelcard is invalid in that situation.
Hope that helps.
hi mike this is paul again
Thank you for your answer but I’m still connfuse.
From my second trip to shepherd’s bush, I did touch out at
startford (tube) and very sure that I touched on the pink validator
at stratford overground(it’s shown something like interchange or connection…. on the pink validator’s screen)
at stratford station, it takes at least one minute (quick walking) to change from tube to underground.
does it need more time for touching in-out?
I always look at the yellow or pink machine’s screen and it
seems working properly.
For z.2-3 travel card, is it only allowed me to travel by tube only one route at one period of time?
as my trip shown above, it didn’t charge me
from mile end to west hampsted(overground) because
i didn’t touch out at stratford (tube) and didn’t touch on the pink validator at overground station.
it seems like when i have more than one connection, it’s free only the first trip.
Regards
Paul
Paul,
I’ve just double checked the single fare finder and Mile End to St Johns Wood is defined as requiring travel via zone 1. You are going to need to break this journey in two. You need to touch out and touch back in, preferably using the gates, at Stratford. Do not use the pink validators and you may also find that the standalone yellow validators cause problems too.
Apologies for my earlier advice, I mistook the relative positions of Stratford and Mile End.
Thank you again for your quick respond.
I’ll try to do that at stratford. If there is something wrong,
I’ll tell you again.
regards,
Paul
I intend to buy a 2-5 travel card to commute from New Barnet to New Cross Gate via Stratford rather than via Shoreditch to avoid buying a 1-5 travel card.
Will it be necessary for me to touch the pink reader at Stratford every journey to prove that my journey lies outside zone 1?
Will it be essential to touch the pink reader at Stratford if I have some prepay credit on my oyster as well as the 2-5 travel card to avoid the system taking some of the credit when I exit at New Cross Gate?
I assume that I don’t also have to use the pink readers at Highbury & Canada Water for the purpose of journey verification?
Thanks.
Hi Eddie,
New Barnet to New Cross Gate is defined as requiring travel via zone 1. To use a 2-5 travelcard you would probably need to break the journey in two at Stratford. You will actually need to exit via the gate and then enter again. I also believe that you will have to use the pink validators at both Highbury and Canada Water to confirm that you have avoided zone 1 on both legs of the journey.
If it is going to deduct cash because you have gone via zone 1 it won’t matter whether you have credit or not. If there is not enough credit the balance will simply go negative and you will not even be able to use the travelcard again without clearing the balance.
Hope that helps.
Thanks for the reply.
I forgot to mention that New Barnet does not have barriers.
If I were to buy a weekly/monthly travelcard, would it be possible to start my journey at New Barnet without touching in, travel to New Cross Gate (via Stratford) where I would need to touch out and exit as there are barriers?
I understand (please correct me if I am wrong) that there is no obligation to touch in/out at stations without barriers as long as you hold a valid travel card and you have only been travelling within your valid zones.
Thanks.
Ah, that’s a possibility then. As long as you are never in zone 1 when inspected by an RPI then I can’t see an issue with that.
Ok – thanks very much for your replies.
Hi Mike,
I was hoping you could help with a question as I have been fined a penalty for having an “unvalidated oyster card” when checked by revenue inspector on the DLR, despite the fact that I pay the correct fare for the journey (as per TFL website) of £3.40.
I start my journey at Southall rail station where I touch in, I leave the train at Ealing broadway station and begin my tube journey on the Central line by touching in on a stand-alone reader on the Central line platform. I then go via Bank to the DLR, and touch out at East India DLR station.
Am I doing something wrong here? Surely if I was I would be getting charged the maximum fare?
I appealed the fine on the grounds that I was paying the correct fare of £3.40, but the appeal was rejected.
Please help!!!
Hi Rav,
Yes, you are doing something wrong, but it’s not stopping you paying the correct fare. When you touch in at Ealing Broadway you are actually touching out. The validators that you use are designed for people arriving from outside the Oyster area who want to switch to Oyster before starting an Underground journey. As you are already ‘in’ the Oyster system you don’t need to do anything there. However, to avoid issues with people touching out at the end of their journey and then getting stopped by the gate when they try to leave the station, the validators are set to continuation exit at Ealing Broadway. So, although you are now ‘out’ of the Oyster system (hence your card is unvalidated) when you touch out again at East India it does correctly register an exit and adjust your fare.
I’m going to send you an email because I think this is an unfair. The signage at Ealing Broadway is unclear and as you say, you do pay the correct fare. Obviously you should now only touch in and out at the ends of your overall journey and you won’t get any more problems. If you don’t get an email this morning, please add another comment and I’ll chase it up.
Hi Mike,
I am about to change my commute and will need to travel from Brockley area to South Kensington. If I get the train from St John’s to Cannon Street, can I then get the tube and still just pay for that as one journey? I just use pre pay as I don’t have to do this trip daily. Is this a situation where I would touch out and back in at Cannon Street within 20 minutes and not get charged twice?
Thanks
Hi Laura,
Yes that is how it works. Bear in mind though that St Johns to South Kensington is a combined NR+TfL journey so costs £3.50 peak and £2.90 off-peak. You can knock £1 off both fares if you either travel from Brockley via Canada Water and Westminster or from Lewisham DLR via Canary Wharf and Westminster. In both cases the journey is made solely by TfL rail. If you change at Canada Water then you should also touch on a pink route validator as you walk from the Overground platform to the Jubilee platform.
Hope that helps.
Hi Mike,
I see that you are the fountain of knowledge here. I have just bought a monthly travel card from zone 3 to zone 2, because the oyster online system asks you the following questions, but I do travel between Zone 1 to get to Zone 2.
Choose Travelcard: Monthly
From zone: 3
To zone: 2
Start date:
I would like an email reminder:
Now this means there is no place for a new person to actually know that you need a Zone 1 included for the full travel because it goes through zone 1. Is this an error on their part or are we meant know that we should select Zone 1 then Zone 3?
I do buy lot of things online and will just select the answers to my questions and get a price and if the supplier has made a mistake it’s up to the supplier to refund me the difference or make a loss.
Thanks,
DS
Hi DS,
I think you’re supposed to know which zones you travel through and buy accordingly. You don’t say what your journey is, but I would expect you to be charged for a pay-as-you-go zone 1 journey if you need to touch in and out to activate gates. If your PAYG balance falls below zero then your travelcard is invalidated until you top up to clear the negative balance.
Hi Mike,
Yes I agree but the website when you go to pay if you are just a new user who just clicks on the zones as you are asked on a travel card then it shows you the wrong value for just Zone 2 and 3. I never have a issue with paying but just annoyed that I have to change the whole ticket because they have got the online payment system misleading the user. Just try for yourself as a user who do not know about zones and see what you get if you put in you’re travelling from zone and travelling to zone. Thank you for your response and I do appreciate your work here and it seems lot of people get lot of good advice from you. The funny thing is if you want to change the travel card to add in another zone now you have to pay £10 admin fee on top!!!
Cheers,
DS
Hi DS,
I agree that it could be described differently. Perhaps the best thing would be to ask for starting and ending stations, or maybe outermost zone and innermost zone required.
As to the £10 admin fee, that surprises me. On National Rail there is no admin fee if switching from one season ticket to another with the same end date. That is effectively what you are asking them to do – change from a zone 2-3 to a zone 1-3 travelcard. I think I would go to a major Underground station (eg London Bridge) and ask at the ticket office. Explain that if you had a paper travelcard season and were doing the same thing upstairs at the NR ticket office that there would be no fee.
I want to travel from London Victoria to Mottingham.
If I go from Victoria to Catford should I touch out at Catford before walking to Catford Bridge to get the train to Lewisham then change to Mottingham. This is in the evening after the last Victoria to Lewisham has gone.
I found an alternative route.
Victoria to London Bridge
London Bridge to Mottingham.
Should I touch out at London Bridge or do I need to?
for the fare to be £2.30 off peak.
The other alternative is to get from Victoria to Charing Cross and pick up the Mottingham train from there but how can I get from Victoria to Charing Cross to Mottingham included in the £2.30? thanks
So many questions. In reverse order, if you use the tube between Victoria and Charing Cross then it will cost £1.20 more. If you go via London Bridge then you don’t need to touch out, just use the footbridge. However, if you do want to touch out to visit the concourse you need to make sure that you use different gatelines. I.e. touch out from platforms 8-16 and touch in at the subway to platforms 1-6. Finally, if you use Catford/Catford Bridge then it will charge the same amount (£2.30) but will take ages. In fact, if it takes too long you might end up with two incomplete journeys, so I wouldn’t recommend that option.
Hope that helps.
What an excellent site, just reading things. I have a question that I hope you can help. I have a PAYG oyster with a railcard registered to it. My travel at the moment is usually off peak within Z1-4 that caps at £4.80. The other Saturday I went into zone 5 in the afternoon and an extra 50p was taken off. Not a great deal in the grand scheme of things. When I queries this at a ticket office I was told the capping should be £5.30 as this was the off peak price of an all zones one day travelcard. He suggested that I was lucky at only being capped £4.80 previously. Incidently, I have only been capped at £4.80 since then but have only been in zones 1-4. Was it because I went into Z5 on a NR journey.
Hi John,
Yes, the extra 50p is because you went into zone 5 and thus triggered the 1-6 price cap. The ticket office was getting confused with paper travelcards. The cheapest railcard discounted paper day travelcard is the Z1-6 version, another real advantage to having Oyster.
Had an unexpected experience today on PAYG.
Travelled from West Croydon to Edgware Road via Overground / Jubilee Line / Bakerloo – was charged the off-peak fare of £2.70 as expected.
Coming back I did the same trip only from Warwick Avenue, even touched the pink validator when changing at Canada Water, expecting to be charged £2.70 again, but was only charged £2. Can’t see any way of getting from Warwick Avenue to Canada Water without going via Zone 1 – not that I’m complaining mind.
Can only assume the system routes you Warwick Avenue – Willesden Jn – Clapham Jn – West Croydon – but touching the validator at Canada Water told it I didn’t go that way.
Hi Mark,
Looking at the single fare finder it looks like you are right. It lists several alternative fares and the last one is via Willesden Junction. To get that you are supposed to touch the pink validator at Willesden Junction. I think you may have discovered a flaw in their logic.
Hello mike,
I am due to start studying at univeristy. My degree is between two university campuses; St Georges in Tooting and Kingston University in Kingston. What would be the most cheapest way to travel between the two campuses? I also have a part time job in the city so, will need to travel to zone 1 twice a week. Any suggestions?
Cheers
Hi Alice,
Without more specific information I can’t really offer precise advice. For travel between the two campuses I’d say the bus may be cheapest. There is a very good journey planner on the TfL website where you can enter two postcodes and it will give you various options. For the City the train will probably be the best option time wise. Whatever, Oyster will get you the cheapest fares.
I’m working in Zone 1 and i’m now required to travel to Watford daily now. What weekly pass do I require? 1-9 inc watford Jct £71.70? Having had a look round I see some stating zones 1-5
yours
very confused (Great site)
Hi Alan,
It depends what you mean by Watford. If Watford (Metropolitan) is the nearest station then you need zones 1-7, for Watford High Street it’s zones 1-8 and Watford Junction is 1-9+W. You won’t get anywhere near Watford on a zones 1-5 ticket.
Mike,
Maybe you can answer this one for me.
I have a monthly zones 4-6 travelcard and made a Journey in the peak (5.30pm) On Wednesday.
I travelled from Stratford International to Slade Green using DLR direct from Stratford International to Woolwich Arsenal swapping to Southeastern at Woolwich Arsenal.
I tapped in at Stratford International and tapped out at Slade Green and was surprised to see that £1.50 had been taken off of my pre-pay balance.
According to the fares finder the fare from Stratford Int. to Woolwich Arsenal at peak time is £1.40!
My travelcard covers me from Woolwich back to Slade Green.
Any idea why £1.50 instead of £1.40 was deducted?
Chris
Hi Chris,
That’s an easy one. Your entire journey was a mixed TfL+NR one between zones 3 and 6. You have a travelcard for zones 4 to 6 so it charged you for a zone 3 mixed TfL+NR journey. The charge is calculated on the whole journey regardless of whether the part which needed charging was a different scale. If you do it again then all you need to do is touch out at Woolwich Arsenal and touch back in a few moments later. This will make it two journeys and the one which needs PAYG for part of it would be all TfL.
Hope that helps,
Mike.
Mike,
Thank you for the response!
It makes sense, just sadly goes against Oyster’s claim of always giving you the cheapest fare on PAYG!!!
I might give the helpline a call and see if I can get my 10p back based on that principle. As they do say touch in at the start of your journey and touch out at the end to make sure you get the cheapest and correct fare!!
Will post back with how I get on
Thank you again,
Chris
No joy with the Oyster helpline – even after speaking to a manager!
they absolutely insist that the fare is correct at £1.50 as its a mixed journey and there is no more that their office can do.
I did mention about the Oyster giving the cheapest fare for the journey being made and in this case it wasn’t and the manager agreed with what I was saying but couldn’t do anything about it as the £1.50 is a publicised fare.
I mentioned that in reality I’ve been charged 10 pence for travelling on National Rail with a valid Travelcard for the journey I was making and he said “in effect..yes that is correct!”
So, all in all, I would have been 10 pence better off if I had split my journey and left and re-entered Woolwich Arsenal.
Despite it only being 10 pence I am going to take the matter further by sending in a complaint. again will update the forum with how I get on
Chris
Thanks for the update, Chris. I have to admit that I’m not surprised by their response. One of the solutions will be for the TOCs and TfL to agree to harmonise the fares so that there is only one scale of adult fares for rail journeys. They have more-or-less done this for child fares, particularly off-peak. My feeling is that the system is constrained by the amount of time available at touch out and has to treat the journey as one. In most cases the difference will only be 10-20 pence. The big exception is a journey from outside zone 1 to zone 1 in the afternoon peak where the chargeable bit is on TfL lines and the card has a railcard discount entitlement. However, there are always ways of getting round the combined charge by splitting the journey in two.
Update on my £1.50 fare…I finally got a response back to my complaint about the additional 10 pence and have agreed this time as a gesture of good will to refund me the 10p
Ironically, I returned back from Manchester today so used the DLR from Stratford to Woolwich Arsenal again…and tapped out..jumped on a 472 and walked out the exit doors to guarantee the breaking of the journey then on the next train back to Slade Green with just the £1.40 taken
Sometimes it is worth putting that complaint in!!
Chris
You don’t actually need to use a bus to split that journey. You would at Lewisham where you need to touch out and in again, but at Woolwich Arsenal both modes are within the same station. Just touching out and back in again would be fine.
Hi Mike, excellent website!
I got a question. I recently changed my commute and I have to travel from Wimbledon to Blackheath via Waterloo/Waterloo East. The trip costs 1.90 peak/1.50off peak. At the moment I’m just using pay as you go because I don’t think there’s a cheaper travelcard alternative or is there?
I would have to buy a 1-3 travelcard for this journey right? Or am I missing something obvious?
Thank you!
Hi Victor,
The £1.90/£1.50 fares are not the via Waterloo fares. They are fares for zones 2-3 only which means Wimbledon – Elephant&Castle – Peckham Rye – Blackheath or Wimbledon – Tulse Hill – Peckham Rye – Blackheath. If you go via Waterloo/Waterloo East then it’s £2.80/£2.00. In both cases the travelcard is not really worthwhile unless you also make other journeys by bus/tram or within your zones. Zones 2-3 is £20.80/week while zones 1-3 is £32.20.
Hope that helps.
Dear Mike
I live in West Norwood and want to get to Kensington Olympia (Overground) using Oyster PayG. The TFL Journey Planner suggests I get a Southern train at West Norwood to Clampham Junction and then an Overground train from Clapham Junction to Kensington Olympia. I will go through zones 2 and 3. Will that be classed as one single journey (£1.30) or will it charge me twice for changing at Clapham Junction?
Hi Christopher,
It will be one single journey, but the charge is £1.50 off-peak or £1.90 peak. £1.30 is the fare for a single zone journey off-peak.
First I just want to say I’m still finding this site invaluable, so thanks for providing it.
I’ve been using PAYG for around 7 weeks now. I regularly travel from Surbiton to Leicester Square via Waterloo, in the evening peak, as the first journey of my day. In so doing I am always charged £5.20 for Surbiton-Waterloo, and £1.30 for Waterloo to Leicester Square. I can’t figure out why this is happening at all – I thought the tube part should be charged as a continuation (as it is when I travel Surbiton-Vauxhall-Brixton) — and given that it isn’t, why £1.30 and not £1.90?
Hi Darren,
It is being treated as a continuation which is why you aren’t charged £1.90. When you exit at Waterloo you have completed a six zone NR journey. When you go onto the Underground you turn that into a combined NR+TfL journey. There is only a difference in price if the journey involves zone 1, where it adds £1.30 peak or £1.20 off-peak. Your second example is only zones 2-6 so is the same price.
Hope that helps.
Dear Mike
Excellent site! Thank you your help.
I’m a PAYG user having 16-25 Railcard. My journey is from Woolwich dockyard National Rail station to Shadwell DLR station via Greenwich station.
According to Single fare finder, I should pay £1.90 at peak time, £1.00 at off-peak time. But I paid £2.90 yesterday… I touched in at Woolwich dockyard and touch out and in again at Greenwich to go to Shadwell DLR station. I had to pay 1.5 for the first journey and 1.4 for the second one separately. I did because a staff in woolwich dockyard said I have to do it.
So, my question is, should I touch in at Woolwich dockyard and touch out at Shadwell DLR station directly – not touching out and in at Greenwich – . It’s complicated!
Thank you again!
Hi Jimmy,
The staff member at Woolwich Dockyard was mistaken. You do not need to touch out and in again at Greenwich. If you do it treats the journey as two individual journeys rather than one combined journey.
Dear Mike,
OMG! I’m so afraid about this!
Thank you for your help and hope that this information can help others.
There’s no need to be afraid. You’ve been overcharged so there’s no danger of getting into trouble. What you could do is fill in the comments form at http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk and let them know that someone at Woolwich Dockyard is giving out incorrect information.
Thank you for your help Mike! I’ll do it!
Hi Mike
I’m moving to Elverson Road (DLR) and will be commuting to work at Canary Wharf – can I buy just a zone 2 annual travel card? if so how much does it cost? If not is it cheaper for me to top up PAYG than to buy a zone 1-2 travel card?
I will be using the DLR/tube at weekends and would go for the travel card only if it is marginally more expensive.
Thanks
Emer
Hi Emer,
Unfortunately you cannot buy a single zone travelcard season. Zones 2-3 would be £832 annually while zones 1-2 is £1104. The peak time fare is only £1.40 each way, so ten times a week for say 48 weeks is only £672. Therefore I’d say it isn’t worth it unless you’ll be doing a lot of extra travel during the year.
Dear Mike,
I wonder if you have a moment if you could help me with this please. I am using a pay-as-you-go oyster and traveling from Northwood to Limehouse. I wish to avoid zone 1 so have travelled the following way:
Northwood-Finchley Road
Finchley Road to West Hampstead, touch out
Touch in West Hampstead Overground
West Hampstead-Stratford
Stratford, touch pink reader when get off of overground,
Touch yellow reader by DLR
Stratford-Poplar DLR
Poplar-Limehouse touch out.
I was charged £4.50 despite having not travelled through zone 1. On the way back, I decided to omit touching the yellow reader by the DLR and just touched the pink reader on the overground platform and was still charged £4.50 touching out at Northwood. Both journeys were made at peak times and I expected a peak 2-6 fare of £2.50. Any light you could shed on this matter would be greatly appreciated please as I need to do this journey for the next 6 months!
Thank you,
Ana
Hi Ana,
Unfortunately your journey has been defined as requiring zone 1, probably on the basis that what you are doing is rather roundabout. I’m not convinced that you’ll persuade them to change this either.
However, I can reduce the fare a little. If you exit Stratford via the gateline (NOT the validators by the DLR) and then enter again it will split the journey in two. You’ll be charged £2.50 for the main chunk and £1.40 for the DLR. You might feel 60p isn’t worth it (and I wouldn’t blame you), so your only other option is to stay on the Met into zone 1 and go the quick way.
Sorry I can’t be much help.
Hello Mike,
I would like to ask you a question regarding the london overground. If i travel from Watford Junction to Canada Water how much will cost me?
Thanks
Andy
Hi Mike, one of my friend is based out of Queensbury and hold zone 2-4 travelcard to reach Canary Wharf, whereas other friend is based out of Wembley Park but he needs zone 1 – 4 travel card, could you please explain, why it is so?
Thanks in advance
Hi Mayur,
Looking at the single fare finder, there are two fares for both stations. One is direct on the Jubilee line while the other changes at West Hampstead and uses the Overground to Stratford before rejoining the Jubilee line at the other end. The latter route avoids zone 1.
A feature of journeys with more than one route is that with a travelcard loaded the default route often changes to a cheaper one. The reason is that when using a travelcard you do not need to touch on a pink route validator, so they give you the benefit of the doubt and say you’ve gone the other way. These routes aren’t publicised officially though.
I don’t know how long your friend’s travelcard lasts, but I’d be inclined to load a zone 2-4 weekly travelcard at the next renewal and ensure that they have at least £1.90 PAYG balance before travelling and touch in and out at each end. If the system doesn’t take the money then they can use those zones all the time. Always touch in and out though, and always have at least the zone 1 tube fare available in case of issues.
If the system does take the money, or starts to at some future date, then your friend will need to consider using the Overground or revert to buying a zone 1-4 travelcard. My guess is that both will work today and if they change it, both will change at the same time.
Hi Andy,
The fare is £7.70 peak, £5 off-peak. This and all Oyster fares can be found on the single fare finder.
Hi Mike,
I have an inquiry. I am travelling from Woolwich Aresnal (z4) to Gunnersbury (z3) via Canning Town (z3) so only enter or exit in zones 3 or 4 but I travel through zones 1 and 2 (Canning Town to Gunnersbury on the District Line). Would a Zones 3-4 travelcard work on this route?
No it wouldn’t. You would be liable for a penalty fare if checked on the train in either zone 1 or 2. However, if you travel via Stratford and Willesden Junction you would only need a zones 2-4 travelcard. It is possible that you might be able to go either way with a zone 2-4 travelcard on Oyster as long as you have at least a zone 1 single fare available on your PAYG balance. This is because sometimes a different default route exists when a travelcard is stored on your Oyster card. You must have the ability to pay for zone 1 though in case you need to leave en-route for some reason. You’ll need to try it out to find out as these concessions aren’t published.
Hi Mike,
I have to say this sight is amazing!
I do have a question for you as i have just started a new job in london and am not used to rail travel fares. I have to travel daily from Chadwell Heath to Liverpool Street but twice a week to picadilly circus. This as far as i am aware includes zones 1-5 so i know i will need a travelcard which looks like it costs 180.50 per month. This is a huge saving compared to buying a daily ticket but i was wondering how much more i could save it i got a 1-5 monthly travelcard loaded onto an oyster. Is there much of a saving from oyster to paper tickets?
Your advice would be invaluable.
Thanks
Rachael
Hi Rachael,
There is no saving between paper and Oyster travelcards, unfortunately. However, there are a couple of things you can do to reduce your costs a bit.
Firstly, if you really only go to Picadilly Circus twice a week then you may be better off with a National Rail season ticket from Chadwell Heath to Liverpool Street and PAYG on Oyster for the trips on the Underground. The season costs £131.40/month. Assuming you make 9 return trips to Picadilly Circus in a month that is 18 x £1.90 = £34.20 making a total of £165.60 or a saving of £14.90 over the travelcard. If you also make other journeys which would be covered by the travelcard but not the rail only season then the savings might be wiped out, but only you know how likely that is.
Secondly, whether you buy a travelcard or a national rail season you can buy for any period between a month and a year. The rate is the same per day for everything except the annual version. Thus you could buy a one month and three days ticket starting Monday 21st November which would run out on Friday 23rd December. You then wouldn’t buy another ticket until after Christmas. If you time your tickets right so you never have one when you’re on holiday you can save quite a bit of money. The one drawback with Oyster is that you would have to buy the tickets at an Underground station, but I’m fairly sure you can have them added in advance. The rail only season you’d get from Chadwell Heath anyway.
Hope that gives you some pointers.
Hi Mike
I need to travel from East Croydon(Zone 5) to Hampton(Zone 6) Station daily. The journey planner suggested me the route via Clapham Junction which is in Zone 2 and here I have to interchange. Do I need a travel card for zone 5-6 or 2-6.
Please help me with this one as I have to make this journey 6 days a week.
Regards,
Dilawar Singh
Hi Dilawar,
You will need a zone 2-6 travelcard for that journey. However, if you want to reduce the outlay, consider taking the tram to Wimbledon and changing there instead. That way you would only need a zone 3-6 travelcard.
Hi Mike,
Can I get a national rail season pass to travel between liverpool street and stratford using the underground?
Thanks!
Hi Elaine,
Yes you can. Tickets are inter-available between Liverpool Street and Stratford so you can use both Tube and NR tickets on both the Central Line and NXEA.
Dear Mike,
Just came across your website. It’s a great resource. Thank you.
My question: For regular peak time journeys between Gospel Oak and Sydenham (changing at Highbury & Islington), will a zone 2 to 3 travelcard cover this, using tfl overground services all the way? If not, does it make a difference if the journey to and from sydenham begins/end at Dalston Junction or Haggerston (or Hoxton)? (I note some comments elsewhere here about anomalies concerning oyster pay as you go pricing on the former East London Line).
I’m guessing it’s a ‘no’ to each of these questions on account of Shoreditch High Street being located in zone 1.
Many thanks
Hi Milind,
Sorry, you definitely need a zone 1-3 travelcard for that journey. I think that the anomalies only relate to journeys on the old ELL north of New Cross/New Cross Gate. I haven’t checked to see whether they still exist yet, however.
Hi, usually travel zn 6 via finchley road/finchley rd & Frognal overground /stratford to canary wharf before 0630 so off peak £1.40.
Due to delays this morning ended up changing again at highbury and Islington to Canada Water to Canary Wharf, still £1.40. Same journey in reverse coming home (still off peak before 1600) came to £2. Not a tragedy but just puzzled!
Hi Kirsten,
I’m puzzled too. £2.00 doesn’t seem to be an appropriate fare for that journey whatever the time or route. Had you possibly used the card for other travel after 0930 such that you capped today? I’ll send you an email shortly and I’d be very interested to see your journey history if you can get hold of it. I’m sure there’ll be an explanation but I’ll need to see the full history to understand it.
nope, that was it, to work and home again. Guy in the ticket office Zn 6 said it was because it was peak time because i hadn’t finished my journey before 4 (!). Awaiting better answer from oyster, i’ll let you know.
Hi Mike,
I really appreciate your suggestions. I am living in Croydon and my work location is Charing Cross. I am buying Zone 1-5 travel card which costs 191 from this jan. I travel from East croydon to London bridge and then to charing cross. I found alternate route via Vauxhall (from east croydon to Clapham junction and then to Vauxhall and take bus route 87 to my office). Is vauxhall in zone 2? Is it ok to buy only zone 2-5 travel card and travel by bus to office in zone 1 with the same travel card from vauxhall?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Hi Arun,
Yes, Vauxhall is dual zoned in both zone 1 and 2. Buses are free with any travelcard season so yes, zone 2-5 will do fine.
Mike,
I’ve just found this forum by googling “pink validator”. It looks incredibly useful.
My husband and I have used the overground a few times over the last year starting in a zone 4 tube station and changing to the Overground at Stratford and exiting at a zone 2 overground station. We couldn’t understand why we kept being charged a fare that included zone 1 as we never went into zone 1. The last time this happened, the overground station was Overground only so there was no ambiguity (West Hampstead Overground). I phoned Oyster today to ask about why Overground tickets are always charged as including zone 1 and was told about Pink validators. Although we often use Stratford station, this was the first time we’d heard about them.
There was been very little publicity at all about them – nothing on the front page of Overground website or Oyster website. Why are they a secret?
The Oyster helpline said there posters at Stratford station, but I’ve now double checked and there are none although we did find the pink validators. They look very similar to the yellow validators and there is nothing to indicate that unless passengers re-validate before joining the Overground they will be charged an incorrect fare. (There is white writing on blue background underneath both the yellow and pink validators, and the wording is only slightly different.)
I am not against the idea of having pink validators to keep track of passengers routes, but concerned about the lack of publicity. I’ve registered my PAYG Oyster card, so they could easily have sent everyone emails about them.
Oyster are refusing to refund me the difference.
I have a second question. I have a network card, and if I manage to get a paper offpeak 1-6 all day travel card I can get 1/3 off on weekends and public holidays, but my local ticket office is often shut. Is there any way of putting my network card on my Oyster account so that my Oyster PAYG cap is discounted?
Hi Penny,
Stratford is probably the worst station for publicity about pink validators because it is so large and most people never go anywhere near them. They have been around for quite a while though, over two years in fact. In most places they are reasonably obvious and the signage does make it clear what they are for. At least you know about them now. The oyster helpdesk could only consider refunding the difference for journeys in the last eight weeks, because beyond that they don’t keep any usage data. Unfortunately without the touch on the pink validator there is no proof that you didn’t actually go via zone 1.
Sadly it’s also a no with the Network Card. Because of the minimum fare on weekdays the Network card is only useful in London on weekends. This would make it different to all the other National Railcards so TfL can’t cater for it. If you know in advance that you will need a travelcard you could always order it online and pick up from any National Rail ticket machine enabled for TOD. Or can your local station sell them with a future date?
Hope that might help.
Hello, I bought an annual travel card last eyar z1-2 and was given a paper gold card for 1/3 off rail tickets. Does thsi apply automatically on my oyster card PAYG for instance when i go to croydon in zone 5? Will Oyster deduct the price less the 1/3 off or must I buy a paper ticket.
I made this journey earlier in the week and oyster took 2.40 off my payg credit on my oyster.
Thanks in advance
Hi Anita,
It doesn’t apply automatically, but if you get a clued up clerk they will add it at the same time. The £2.40 is the peak charge for zones 3-5 and the discount only applies to off-peak travel and the off-peak cap. You could take the Oyster card and paper record card to a tube station ticket office and get them to check whether the NR discount has been added, or wait until you make an off-peak journey and see what happens.
Mike,
My last journey on the Overground when I was overcharged was only a few weeks ago (17th Dec) and the exit was an Overgound only station (West Hampstead Overground), so there is no way I could have gone any other route other than via the Overground. However the Oyster helpline are refusing a refund on the grounds that they only make refunds on incomplete journeys. We went to Stratford station yesterday and searched for any signs or posters about the the pink validators and there definitely isn’t any there now. I am wondering if there is a deliberate policy of minimal publicity/no refunds in order to maximise revenue. A disgrace!
Penny,
I can understand your frustration, and in your place I’d be inclined to ask again for a goodwill refund, although I can also see a semi-viable alternative that does include zone 1. They do make refunds in places where the system has undeniably got it wrong, but in this case the instructions on the single fare finder are quite specific: To ensure you are charged the appropriate fare you must touch on the pink card reader on the Oyster route validator if interchanging at Stratford.
Certainly I have issues with some of the signage at Stratford and I will take another look myself next time I go there. The biggest problem is the signs that invite you to touch your card in a way that could leave you open to being charged a penalty fare later on.
Mike,
After reading the page about the lack of publicity on Oyster Extension Permits – I had no idea about these either – and how they used to make people pay penalty fares just because they tried to touch out, the pink validator issue has been set in perspective. This is an amazing website. Can’t understand TFL can’t provide something as useful as this.
Learnt an expensive lesson today! Had £9.95 on my card. Made one bus journey then took the train from East Croydon to Victoria followed by Underground to Hillingdon. Met up with a friend who was driving for the rest of the journey. On the way back he dropped me off at Rickmansworth. I knew Rickmansworth is zone 7 and that the 1-6 off peak cap is now £8.50,but figured the £1.45 would cover the additional charge for going into zone 7! Wrong! When I came off the underground and touched back in onto NR at Victoria I saw I had 30p,when I touched out at Croydon I was on -60p! Put more money on my card,got the bus home. Thought I’d been overcharged until I checked the daily price caps on the tfl website and saw zones 1-7 off peak is £11.60!! Excuse my language Mike but when the difference between the 1-4 cap and the 1 to (5 or 6) cap is 80p,how the hell do tfl justify another £3.10 for an additional zone??
Thanks for the comment, Penny. I must resist the temptation to re-open the OEP wounds.
Phil, ouch!
The next cap up from 1-6 is 1-9 and compared to fares going out of zone 6 in other directions it’s not that bad. However, this is one of those odd times where a second Oyster card would have been cheaper. The single fare from Rickmansworth to Moor Park is only £1.40 off-peak. If you touched out at Moor Park and then back in again to continue using the zone 1-6 cap you’d have been better off. I don’t know how Oyster would charge that scenario on one card, but if they went right up to the 1-9 cap then you’d have a case for a refund (but only if you’d separated out the single stop zone 7 journey).
Hi Mike,
I’m commuting from Brimsdown in Enfield to Tottenham Hale to Vauxhall or Brimsdown to Liverpool St or Brimsdown to Stratford depending on the Victoria line. I have a monthly oyster with zones 1-5, I wish to change my route to Theobalds Grove in Waltham Cross to Seven Sisters then Victoria line to Vauxhall and return Vauxhall to Tottenham Hale to Waltham Cross rail station. I think Waltham Cross & Theobalds Grove is zone 7
however I cannot seem to buy a 1-7 oyster at any of the station oyster points.
Pls help.
Thanks.
Hi Kay,
Unfortunately the final zone in that direction is zone 6 and Enfield Lock/Turkey Street are the furthest stations accepting Oyster. You would need to buy a paper travelcard season instead. I don’t know whether you can buy one valid at either Theobalds Grove or Waltham Cross, but if you can’t and the inter-availability is important to you, you’ll need to buy a Cheshunt to zones 1-6 travelcard season instead.
This situation may change when NXEA are replaced by Abelio because they have promised to extend Oyster to Shenfield and Hertford East. However, that was agreed when FCC were also planning to extend Oyster to Hertford North, and that extension seems to have been cancelled now.
Thanks for the prompt reply Mike.
I will look into that.
And must say this is a great site and you are most helpful to all.
Cheers Mate.
Hi,
I will be travelling from Chadwell Heath – Liverpool st 5 days a week. What are the cheapest options for this?
Thanks
Hi Andrew,
If it is a standard peak time commute then a National Rail season ticket will be the best value. You can buy weekly tickets, or any period between one month and a year. If going for the monthly option then it’s best to buy a few extra days to make the ticket a complete number of Monday to Friday weeks and then have the weekend off before starting the next season on the next Monday. If you can time it right to avoid having a season when you are on annual leave and/or most long weekends (bank hols) then many people find this is roughly similar in price to an annual season without having to pay up front.
If you can regularly make one journey a day outside of the Oyster peak (0630-0930 and 1600-1900) then PAYG is the way to go. The key time is touch in, so if you get a train just after 0630 but can touch in before then you’ll be charged off-peak.
Thanks very much
Hello Mike,
Can you please help me. I’m about to renew my season ticket from Brentwood to zone1. I am finding it hard to get a price comparison for when oyster is accepted at Brentwood from 12/02/12 so that I will know if it’s worth waiting until then. How can I get a price?
Thanks.
Hi Stewart,
Have they actually installed Oyster readers beyond Harold Wood yet? I know the intention is to extend the system to Shenfield in preparation for Crossrail, but I didn’t realise it was happeneing quite so soon?
Anyway, regardless of that, travelcard season prices are the same on paper and on Oyster so there is unlikely to be any financial gain by waiting. I will try to find out more about the extension though.
Hi Mike,
In a few weeks, my commute will change to Welling (BR) to Heron Quays (DLR. This would mean I have to change at Lewisham, there are new barriers at Lewisham which require you to tap in to get through.
Does this mean my PAYG Oyster will be charged for two separate journeys:-
Welling (BR) to Lewisham (BR) = £2.00
&
Lewisham (DLR) to Heron Quays = £1.50
OR
Will Oystercard recognize my journey as a single journey:-
Welling (BR) to Heron Quays (DLR) = £2.40
Thank you.
Hi MC,
As long as you touch back in to the DLR within the time allowed on the OSI page you will be charged as one journey.
Mike, WOW, you are an Oyster genius! I’m hoping you’ll be kind enough to impart some of your wisdom onto me.
I take a trip from Hackney Central (overground) to Golders Green (Northern Line). I get off the overground at Camden, touch out, then walk a few minutes to the Northern Line station, and touch in, to finish my journey. At no point do I hit zone 1, but I get charged for zones 1-3 rather than only 2-3.
I’m assuming I need to touch a pink validator at some point, but where? And will it interfere with my journey at all, in that I would have to get off the train in order to touch a validator, and then wait for the next train?
Thanks in advance,
Sofia.
Hi Sofia,
You’ve found a mistake in the fares model. There is only one fare between Hackney Central and Golders Green and it assumes travel via Highbury & Islington and Euston. The system can easily see that you’ve avoided zone 1 by the fact that you interchange between Camden Road and Camden Town, a recognised out of station interchange. I suggest that you email the helpdesk and ask them to consider introducing a via Camden fare. I will also do the same and hopefully something can be done about it.
In the meantime, if you travel every day you can save a bit by buying a zone 2-3 travelcard on Oyster. This will cost £22 per week and saves £9 over 10 peak journeys or £4 over 10 off-peak journeys. The one thing you will need to do between Camden Town and Camden Road is either (a) take more than 20 minutes; or (b) touch in on a bus and then get off straight away. In both cases this will split your single journey into two separate zone 2-3 journeys. With a travelcard on your Oyster card bus travel is free so it won’t affect the system.
Hope this helps.
I am curious as to the relevance of the OSI on my journey Mike.
If I travel from Tulse Hill to Elephant and Castle on National Rail it is £2 on Oyster. A journey on London Underground from Elephant and Castle to Bank on the Northern Line is £2 on Oyster.
The cost of a journey from Tulse Hill to Bank, which uses Elephant as an OSI, is £4.
This means absolutely no benefit to having an OSI but runs the risk of the two journeys being treated as one and exceed the maximum time.
Hi Mick,
Elephant and Castle (and Vauxhall) are special OSIs because they sit on the boundary between zone 1 and 2. Thus your Tulse Hill to Elephant journey is zones 3-2 on NR while the Elephant to Bank journey is zone 1 on TfL. Where the cost of a journey in two halves is less than the usual through cost they reduce the through fare when using those two interchanges. Off-peak the two journeys are £1.60 and £2.00 but the combined fare is £3.40, saving 20p.
As to the maximum journey time you get 90 minutes to make a zone 2-3 journey and 110 minutes to make a zone 1-3 journey on Monday to Friday before 1900. If it was two separate journeys then you’d have 90 minutes for the zone 1 journey too, but in reality you would never need that long.
Mike,
Can you please tell me the cheapest way to get from Clapham Junction to Bank? I have been getting the overground from Clapham Junction to Waterloo, tagging out and then back in when I get on to the Waterloo and City line to Bank. Its currently costing me 7.60 a day and I am getting an annual railcard zobnes 1 and 2 soon but was wondering if there was a cheaper route or if I am doing something wrong?
Hi Harry,
There are basically four different ways to get between Clapham Junction and Bank and they all cost different amounts as follows:
Peak Off-peak Route
£2.70 £2.00 changing at West Brompton or Shepherds Bush then Underground
£3.60 £3.10 changing at Vauxhall then Underground
£3.80 £3.10 changing at Waterloo or Victoria then Underground
£2.30 £1.80 NR only via Waterloo/East and London Bridge to Cannon St then walk.
An annual travelcard for zones 1 and 2 would cover you for all options. It would probably just about be economical for the 1st option. If you decide to use the 4th option then you would be better off with a Clapham Junction to London terminals season ticket.
Hope that helps.
Hello Mike, hope you are well. I’m new to London and this whole Oyster card shebang so apologies if this is a bit obvious.
I need to travel from Bethnal Green (zone 2) to Watford Junction on Thursday night. Now I believe this should cost £1.70 on my oyster card for a single.
Do I have to avoid travelling through Euston, or anywhere in zone 1 to ensure I only pay the zone 2-Watford Jct rate?
And if I can get away with going through Euston and only paying the zone 2-Watford JCT rate, how do I avoid paying for two separate journeys (BG to Euston, then Euston to Wat) as surely I will need to touch out at Euston underground, ending that journey, then touch back in on the train platform, starting a new one.
A really long winded way of saying-how do I get there without paying a fortune!
Hi Chris,
Assuming that you have a railcard attached to your Oyster card then the off-peak single is indeed £1.70 as long as you don’t go anywhere near zone 1. You certainly won’t be able to go via Euston, and you can’t in fact travel from Bethnal Green tube. What you need to do is start from Bethnal Green NR station and travel to Hackney Downs, then walk to Hackney Central and change at Willesden Junction onto a train to Watford Junction. You need to touch on the pink validator at Willesden Junction while interchanging.
Hope this helps.
Hello Mike,
Congratulations on your excellent website – the oyster oracle…….
I have a zone 1-2 weekly and travel from North Greenwich (Z2) into central london. I found an alternative (and easier journey in peak) if I go one stop on the Jubilee line to Canning Town (zone 3) and then change onto the DLR and take that into Bank (zone 1).
At Canning Town, I just walked up the stairs and got onto the DLR – I never needed to touch my card anywhere (nor did I see anywhere to touch it)
Do I technically need a zone 1-3 to make such a trip – even though I never leave the station ??
Thanks
gabster
Hi Gabster,
One of the beautiful things about Oyster is that as long as you stay within the overall Oyster area and have sufficient PAYG balance, you can never be deemed off route. You also need to be careful about maximum journey times, of course. So, my advice is to have enough on your card for a zone 3 journey just in case you end up needing to touch out at Canning Town. However, if you only touch in at North Greenwich and out at Bank then your travelcard will cover it.
Great stuff Mike, thanks a lot.
Hi Mike,
I currently travel from New Cross Gate which is in Zone 2 to Wood Green Zone 3. At the moment I have to buy a Zone 1-3 travelcard because I take the London Overground to Highbury and Islington . I was wondering if a Zone 2-3 travelcard would work if I travel through Stratford. The thing is it would add only 15 minutes to my journey every morning which I think is not much for the potential savings I could be making.
Hi Femi,
You can do it, but you’ll need to touch out and in again at Stratford. This will split your journey into two journeys which are both zone 2-3. If you don’t touch out and in again then the system will think you’ve gone via zone 1 and deduct £2 from your PAYG balance.
Hope this helps.
Hi Mike,
Might be a silly question but i don’t think i have seen it written anywhere.
If you purchase a travelcard on your oyster, do the zones you travel through count? For example if i was travelling from Ealing Broadway (Zone 3) to Hendon Central (Zone 4) i have to at some point go through zones 1 & 2, but not surface, so do i need a zones 3-4 travelcard or a zones 1-4 travelcard?
Many thanks
Jack
Yes the zones you travel though count, but you don’t need zone 4 because Hendon Central is dual zoned. As long as you arrive from the south you don’t leave zone 3. Also, if you don’t mind changing at Shepherd’s Bush, Willesden Junction and Camden Road/Town then you can do it with zones 2-3.
Hi Mike,
This query may of been answered in a previous question (i had a brief scan of them but couldn’t see anything). Just wondering, if you start a journey during off peak (say, touch in at 3:45pm) and then end a journey during peak times (say, touch out at 4:15pm) are you charged an off peak or peak fare?
many thanks
Hi Charlie,
The fare charged is determined by the touch in time at the start of the overall journey.
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